patella = little dish (from patera), I think; hence the knee-bone, from its shape. More fanciful linguists have also tried to derive 'Italia' from vitula....hmm!
Our oldest son (now 28) began violin lessons at age 4. I thought it was crazy, but his grandmother insisted. I am so very grateful that I relented. His first violin was a 1/32nd size. I still have it. The years of practicing together and going to summer camps together have blessed me richly. And he STILL plays. It is a great consolation to him during times of struggle.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge about the word origins. I have long been fascinated by word origins, ancient languages, and the classics. Our kids’ grandfather was a classicist (May he rest in peace). Only my oldest child was able to meet him. He was a professor at Princeton and other well-known universities over the years. I only knew him for about 4 years before he died, but his knowledge and wisdom definitely influenced me to continue learning.
In theory and also in practice, “violoncello” is correct, as Italian words ending in -one (like violone, but also bastone, garzone...) form the diminutive with -ncello (violoncello, bastoncello, garzoncello...). ☺️
thank you, yes, Angelo Meriani mentioned this. And I added limoncello. Can you think of any words in -one that become -onello or -onella? I suppose citronella doesn't count because the root is citron? What about mattonella?
Thank you. I think the gender is unlikely to influence the phonology in that way. One might also think of the diminutive of Antonio, Antonello. I suspect there were variant ways of creating the diminutive, which is why I wrote 'in theory', though as you rightly say the predominant form is -cello.
Yes! That would be a separate etymology, a little 'fides'. 'Fides' lyre is apparently related to σφίδες, a gut string according to Hesychius. I think fidula is more likely for 'fiddle', less so for viola.
Great, Armand, as usual. But consider that in Italian the diminutive of, say, 'briccone', 'garzone' (etc.) are 'bricconcello', 'garzoncello' (for this last, the expression 'garzoncello scherzoso' in G. Leopardi, 'Il sabato del villaggio', 43 is memorable)
Strings were always made of a kind of leather - right up until the 20th century. The term 'gut' is used because it came from the lining of a calf's intestine, which has particular tensile qualities so can be twisted and shaped without breaking and can then be stretched and played.
This became known as catgut by mishearing of cattlegut! The sound of gut strings on a cello is particularly lovely, I think, but not loud enough for most performers today, who use steel. Steven Isserlis famously plays on gut strings, as do all 'authentic' baroque performers.
patella = little dish (from patera), I think; hence the knee-bone, from its shape. More fanciful linguists have also tried to derive 'Italia' from vitula....hmm!
yes, dish is better than pot! thanks
Our oldest son (now 28) began violin lessons at age 4. I thought it was crazy, but his grandmother insisted. I am so very grateful that I relented. His first violin was a 1/32nd size. I still have it. The years of practicing together and going to summer camps together have blessed me richly. And he STILL plays. It is a great consolation to him during times of struggle.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge about the word origins. I have long been fascinated by word origins, ancient languages, and the classics. Our kids’ grandfather was a classicist (May he rest in peace). Only my oldest child was able to meet him. He was a professor at Princeton and other well-known universities over the years. I only knew him for about 4 years before he died, but his knowledge and wisdom definitely influenced me to continue learning.
In theory and also in practice, “violoncello” is correct, as Italian words ending in -one (like violone, but also bastone, garzone...) form the diminutive with -ncello (violoncello, bastoncello, garzoncello...). ☺️
thank you, yes, Angelo Meriani mentioned this. And I added limoncello. Can you think of any words in -one that become -onello or -onella? I suppose citronella doesn't count because the root is citron? What about mattonella?
Perhaps mattonella doesn’t need the c because mattone is masculine while mattonella is feminine… but I’m not a linguist, so I don’t know for sure.
Thank you. I think the gender is unlikely to influence the phonology in that way. One might also think of the diminutive of Antonio, Antonello. I suspect there were variant ways of creating the diminutive, which is why I wrote 'in theory', though as you rightly say the predominant form is -cello.
There are several diminutive suffixes in Italian — that of Antonio could be -nello, but also -nino, or -nietta for the feminine version…
Plus, Antonio doesn't end with -one, but with -onio! 😅
If you were to create a diminutive of padrone would it be padroncello or padronello?
Padroncino! 😅
I feel you need to end this post with “Voilà!”
How so? Viola and voilà are two completely different words… voilà = voi [second person singular imperative of the verb voir, to see] là = see there!
I think Aaron was joking...😀
Oops, sorry! Sometimes I'm too literal... 😅
I also shoul ld add that 'viola' could come from 'fidula', the same source for 'fiddle'
Yes! That would be a separate etymology, a little 'fides'. 'Fides' lyre is apparently related to σφίδες, a gut string according to Hesychius. I think fidula is more likely for 'fiddle', less so for viola.
Great, Armand, as usual. But consider that in Italian the diminutive of, say, 'briccone', 'garzone' (etc.) are 'bricconcello', 'garzoncello' (for this last, the expression 'garzoncello scherzoso' in G. Leopardi, 'Il sabato del villaggio', 43 is memorable)
Thank you Angelo! Yes that intrusive c seems to be needed for words ending -one. I don't forget limoncello!!
Armand--am I reading correctly that the strings would have been made of leather? How would that sound?
Strings were always made of a kind of leather - right up until the 20th century. The term 'gut' is used because it came from the lining of a calf's intestine, which has particular tensile qualities so can be twisted and shaped without breaking and can then be stretched and played.
This became known as catgut by mishearing of cattlegut! The sound of gut strings on a cello is particularly lovely, I think, but not loud enough for most performers today, who use steel. Steven Isserlis famously plays on gut strings, as do all 'authentic' baroque performers.